Interesting - and even more so it would be to find out who hired him/them.

Tip: Croatia

@Arpiel: I'd be very cautious about broad stroke accusations, especially ones that seem to paint an entire national/ethnic/religious group based on stereotypes. Just like I don't assume all Muslims are terrorists, I don't assume all Croatians are fascists. I hope you're not making that kind of simplistic, reductionist argument.

I'd be interested to know what drew him to Islam. I know that the Croats and the Muslims (Bosniaks and Kosovars) in the former Yugoslavia had a common enemy - Serbia - but I don't know how much contact or coordination there was between the groups.

It's also very interesting to note that the image at the top of the sidebar is not exactly pro-USA. That's another thing that I've found surprising about this case - from what I've seen, there's been little or no attempt to link this to the USA.

sorry frank...Evo has already said that if Obama does not support him on this, that would lead him to believe that Obama plotted this.

I think there's little evidence to suggest that the US had anything to do w/ this. I also don't think the US government is really even paying attention to Bolivia (it's such a low priority, it doesn't even get very good diplomats assigned to it). I also agree w/ Chasqui that Evo is overstating this & playing his hand (internationally) badly.

No doubt Obama *should* make a statement about this, one that would give a sense that the US isn't trying to assassinate a democratically elected leader. Evo probably wants to have an "international victory" to show and/or paint himself as having Obama's endorsement. But the way he's going about this will likely make Obama bristle & treat him like a petulant child. I get a sense that Obama--despite all the hopes pinned on him by broad sections of the American left--is a hawk in the Reagan tradition.

I should also point out that the Santa Cruz prefect, Ruben Costas, who was also apparently a target has also played this poorly. Both government & opposition leaders (Evo & Costas) are so set for knee-jerk attacks on each other, that Costas' first instinct was to claim this was a government hoax.

Hopefully, the fact that someone targeted them **both** may help to bring them together, to make statements about the defense of democratic rule of law, about institutionality, and to start asking their respective supporters to stop using extra-institutional means (paros, marchas, etc) to intimidate their opponents & to instead rely on, support, and accept democratic institutions (the legislature, the courts) to resolve problems.

I get a sense that Obama--despite all the hopes pinned on him by broad sections of the American left--is a hawk in the Reagan tradition.

Hawk in the Reagan tradition, wasn't that running assassination squads in South America?

He's probably more of a hawk in the Lyndon Johnson tradition.

Leave the big double R alone, Steve. He beat the nasty commies and is one of the most popular US presidents ever.

So Obama is a hawk in the LBJ tradition? The one who was the wrath of the "Hey, hey, LBJ, how many babies did you kill today" crowd? With your RR logic, try to conjure up a rhyme of "Hey, hey, Barack..." with his adventure in Afghanistan and/or Iraq.

I should point out that **all** US presidents have been hawks of one kind or another. FDR and WWII. Truman and Korea. JFK was the blueprint for the liberal hawk (Vietnam, Cuba) admired by The New Republic. LBJ certainly was a hawk. Nixon of course. Ford, not so much, but he was only a brief caretaker president. Carter militarized the conflict in El Salvador. Reagan, of course. Bush 42 was a hesitant hawk. Clinton invaded the Balkans, Haiti, and launched a lot of missiles at a lot of places (including Sudan & Afghanistan). Bush 43, no question.

So why does anyone expect Obama to be America's Ghandi? And why is Carter's legacy rewritten to make him a pacifist? He's NOT viewed that way in Central America.

I have noticed that the Irish media is very suspicious of Evo's claims. They are bring up all the points mentioned in the Santa Cruz media: this shoot out seems to have only one sided, the Irish guy had no history of violence (he only played with air pellet guns), the police had no warrant to invade their residence. The Hungarian guy was known in Hungary as a painter. One picture showed that one of the guys had handcuffs on in the morgue.

The handcuffs reminds me of an newspaper article my grandfather read when he was young. "Man shot in the forehead while fleeing from the police."

DV so you think that Evo planted the c-4, the grenades, the assault rifles... You sound as paranoid as Rozsa. Los Tiempos reports today that Rozsa in an interview that was only recently released said that he was coming back to Bolivia to forma militia and defend Santa Cruz from the central government. I guess Evo was behind that too. The people that we with him were not tourists and bought into his scheme for ideological and/or monetary reasons. Links to UJC are not suprising given its violent tendencies and fondness for portraying itself as a type of militia of the media luna.

http://www.lostiempos.com/diario/actualidad/nacional/20090422/en-septiembre-rozsa-confeso-sus-planes_4170_6883.html

Just because some is a painter does not make them a saint. Who knows what other interests he had? Hilter was a vegetarian...

It is ironic how people will quickly call Evo out on his grand CIA conspiracies, yet just as quickly spin their own Evo conspiracy yarns.

It would not suprise if there is an assaination attempt against Evo by people sympathetic to the media luna within 5 years, if there is substantial progress made on the autonomy issue. But autonomy might be a red herring, and even if there is some substantial decentralization, I still think the opposition will want his head because of the core issues of land and race.

I'm going to wait until thorough investigations come out. I don't think armchair speculation about whether Evo has a conspiracy or whether there's a conspiracy against Evo is very helpful. In fact, I actually am naturally *VERY* skeptical of conspiracy theories in general.

Also, assuming that all autonomy supporters are violent extremists is just as shallow-minded as assuming that all Evo supporters want to turn Bolivia into a landlocked Cuba or North Korea.

Miguel wrote: "And why is Carter's legacy rewritten to make him a pacifist? He's NOT viewed that way in Central America."

That's interesting, I guess I had tended to follow the notion that Carter looked the other way while Ortega et al consolidated their power in Nicaragua and was hostile to the government in El Salvador at that time. Can you suggest any reading on the subject?

Right, and Carter's (mis)handling of the US hostages in Iran.

No, it seems likely that Rozsa Flores was up to no good, looks like he wanted to set up a local milita. Which if he was investigated and arrested based on that there wouldn't be any problem. There just does not seem to be any proof that he was involved in an assassination plot.

Seems that it was one-sided ambush, not a 30-minute gun battle as described by Bolivia's police. There was no warrant. There was a photo that showed one of the people executed was cuffed. When Ireland, Hungry and Romania ask for explanations about these problems, Morales dismissed their concerns as illegitimate and accused them of supporting the assassins.

We dont have all the info yet, but I looks to me that the Bolivian government is determined to fit a square peg in a round hole for its own reasons.

With all due respect DV you weren't there, I was not there, the press was not there... We don't know whether they were armed or not. Even if they weren't armed I would not be suprised if a cowboy like Rozsa, who at best was not firing on all cylanders, had a "I won't be taken alive" mentality and resisted or did something to provoke a response. His reputation as violent person, who might have been responsible for killing of civilians and journalist in Croatia. Even with handcuffs one can use a handgun or take a stab at someone. At the same time, as usual MAS seems very defesive, and they should more open with details about what happened with the public and foreign governments, even if the police did lose control.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/bolivia/5185198/My-meeting-with-the-man-accused-of-plotting-the-assassination-of-Evo-Morales.html

As for the Irish guy Dwyer you are wrong when you wrote that he had only fired a air pistol. He worked as a bouncer, had security training, which included firearms, and he told his parents that he was coming to Bolivia to work for a security firm. Hardly a pacifist, but I think he might have not known exactly what he was getting into and it would be very tragic if he were innocently naive and killed without cause by the police.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0421/breaking30.htm

As for the Hungarian Magyarosi Los Tiempos reports today that he found a unltranationalist militia in Hungary a year or so ago. Again not much a of pacifist, but maybe in over his head. Again tragic if innocent and maybe these guys are like John Walker Lindh: in over their heads and very naive about the severity of their actions.
However, imagine if there were a separatist movement in Texas, and they were accused of bombing Billy Graham's house (is he even still alive?), and the Texas authorities beleived that they wanted to kill the Governor over Texas and Obama. The authorities decide on a raid and they believe the group are heavily armed. Do you think that the theoretical separatists would have much of chance of making it out alive? In addition to the outrageous militarization of the autonomy dispute that Rozsa and company were bent on enacting, and possible threats to the Morales, they might have taken a shot Catholic Church. Most of police were probably Catholics and despite their political sentiments did not take kindly to that religous affront.

There was an unarmed handcuffed guy shot in the back by Police on the light rail system in the Bay Area.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/BART-Officer-Shoots-Man-in-Oakland.html

So even with the expensive and thorough training offered to US law enforcement, these things happen. I do not mean to condone it, but you seem to expect Navy Seal performance from Bolivia's third world budgeted security forces.

Basically, I will end my rant with a personal anecdote. In the course of my work I had some interactions with a heavy equipment operator, who was a former union leader, connected to the Hell's Angels, and involved in an FBI investigation regarding stolen motorcycles and corrupt local police. I told this story to friend, because I thought it was bizarre, unusual and interesting. Unlike me he was not suprised at all that those elements came together. The same is true here, it is not suprising at all that Rozsa and company, given their backgrounds, went down ultimately in hail of gunfire. Trying to shift the focus entirely to blame the Police, without recognizing the severity of the situation is unfair, absurd and partisan.

So, while I agree that ideally the police should have taken the guys into custody, it does not suprise me that it ended in violence. And blaming the police does not acknowledge the severity of the situation that they faced.

PS... Rozsa's semi-autobiographical film Chico is available on Netflix if you dare watch :)